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	<title>Comments on: 2009: The decline of &#8220;Democratic Security?&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cipcol.org/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1248" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248</link>
	<description>Peace, security, human rights and the U.S. role in Latin America, from the Center for International Policy.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:36:29 -0400</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Called to Colombia &#187; A Tale of Two Stories &#8211; part 1</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-9623</link>
		<dc:creator>Called to Colombia &#187; A Tale of Two Stories &#8211; part 1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 05:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-9623</guid>
		<description>[...] concerns about illegal armed groups&#8217; continued strength, Colombian think tank Nuevo Arco Iris reported a couple of months ago about increasing FARC attacks, including kidnappings.Â  GDP tracks the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] concerns about illegal armed groups&#8217; continued strength, Colombian think tank Nuevo Arco Iris reported a couple of months ago about increasing FARC attacks, including kidnappings.Â  GDP tracks the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: lfm</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7852</link>
		<dc:creator>lfm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7852</guid>
		<description>Thanks Eric Girard. Point well taken. Still the fact remains that, with or without external help, the Army inflicted casualties on the FARC beyond anything before. To my mind, it proved on the ground what most people suspected before: that, when push comes to shove, if both sides give it their all, the Army could prevail. But you have shown to know some juicy bits about this so I&#039;ll let myself be taught if you wish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Eric Girard. Point well taken. Still the fact remains that, with or without external help, the Army inflicted casualties on the FARC beyond anything before. To my mind, it proved on the ground what most people suspected before: that, when push comes to shove, if both sides give it their all, the Army could prevail. But you have shown to know some juicy bits about this so I&#8217;ll let myself be taught if you wish.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Girard</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7839</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Girard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7839</guid>
		<description>LFM, good post, but I was under the impression that the battle of Mitu was somewhat of a tie, was it not? And that the Colombian military was only successful after the Brazilians allowed them use of their airbases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LFM, good post, but I was under the impression that the battle of Mitu was somewhat of a tie, was it not? And that the Colombian military was only successful after the Brazilians allowed them use of their airbases.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime Bustos</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7835</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime Bustos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7835</guid>
		<description>Washington rethinks its relations with Colombia. Itâ€™s about time 

http://colombiareports.com/opinion/117-cantonese-arepas/7307-washington-rethinks-its-relations-with-colombia-its-about-time.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Washington rethinks its relations with Colombia. Itâ€™s about time </p>
<p><a href="http://colombiareports.com/opinion/117-cantonese-arepas/7307-washington-rethinks-its-relations-with-colombia-its-about-time.html" rel="nofollow">http://colombiareports.com/opinion/117-cantonese-arepas/7307-washington-rethinks-its-relations-with-colombia-its-about-time.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7829</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7829</guid>
		<description>Perhaps valuable US support has been dithering, and will pick up once again in the near future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps valuable US support has been dithering, and will pick up once again in the near future.</p>
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		<title>By: comÃºn</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7828</link>
		<dc:creator>comÃºn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7828</guid>
		<description>As if to underscore the report, there is a story in today&#039;s El Espectador with the headline &quot;Mass grave with 2000 bodies found in La Macarena&quot;:

http://elespectador.com/noticias/judicial/articulo176848-hallan-fosa-comun-2000-cuerpos-macarena

Didn&#039;t Adam recently do a report on this region? 

Perhaps even more tragic than the story itself; is that El Espectador had it tucked away in the &quot;Judicial&quot; section. El Tiempo did not even carry the story (though in all fairness, the story may just be breaking).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As if to underscore the report, there is a story in today&#8217;s El Espectador with the headline &#8220;Mass grave with 2000 bodies found in La Macarena&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://elespectador.com/noticias/judicial/articulo176848-hallan-fosa-comun-2000-cuerpos-macarena" rel="nofollow">http://elespectador.com/noticias/judicial/articulo176848-hallan-fosa-comun-2000-cuerpos-macarena</a></p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t Adam recently do a report on this region? </p>
<p>Perhaps even more tragic than the story itself; is that El Espectador had it tucked away in the &#8220;Judicial&#8221; section. El Tiempo did not even carry the story (though in all fairness, the story may just be breaking).</p>
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		<title>By: Camilo Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7816</link>
		<dc:creator>Camilo Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7816</guid>
		<description>It is of interest that Jaime Bustos speaks of a return to the XIX Century.  I would argue that Uribe has always had one foot in the XIX Century, and the other in the modern sector.  The mentality of many of the regional landed elites (including Uribe) dates from the XIX Century.  Uribe is able to draw support from both sectors, each supporting him for its own reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is of interest that Jaime Bustos speaks of a return to the XIX Century.  I would argue that Uribe has always had one foot in the XIX Century, and the other in the modern sector.  The mentality of many of the regional landed elites (including Uribe) dates from the XIX Century.  Uribe is able to draw support from both sectors, each supporting him for its own reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime Bustos</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7811</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime Bustos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7811</guid>
		<description>Helluva job indeed, lfm, bad news the helluva job will keep going until we are gaspig red in the face, and back to the XIX century when our then president gave Panama away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helluva job indeed, lfm, bad news the helluva job will keep going until we are gaspig red in the face, and back to the XIX century when our then president gave Panama away.</p>
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		<title>By: jd</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7810</link>
		<dc:creator>jd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7810</guid>
		<description>Adam, I&#039;d like to hear your opinion on the semantic issue of &quot;neoparamilitaries&quot; versus &quot;emerging groups&quot; or &quot;criminal bands&quot; or whatever. I mean, the continuity in terms of specific individuals who moved from say, the Bloque Catatumbo to an Aguilas Negras band is obvious, but to me and many others the implication of the term &quot;paramilitary&quot; in the Colombian context is quite clearly related to doing dirty work in cooperation with the state security forces. And yes, I know that most of them were just in it for the drug profits, land theft, etc., but it seems that there is rather less evidence of systematic cooperation between these &quot;neoparas&quot; and the security forces. Is it really conceding too much to the govt. to draw a distinction between the paras and the post-paras?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, I&#8217;d like to hear your opinion on the semantic issue of &#8220;neoparamilitaries&#8221; versus &#8220;emerging groups&#8221; or &#8220;criminal bands&#8221; or whatever. I mean, the continuity in terms of specific individuals who moved from say, the Bloque Catatumbo to an Aguilas Negras band is obvious, but to me and many others the implication of the term &#8220;paramilitary&#8221; in the Colombian context is quite clearly related to doing dirty work in cooperation with the state security forces. And yes, I know that most of them were just in it for the drug profits, land theft, etc., but it seems that there is rather less evidence of systematic cooperation between these &#8220;neoparas&#8221; and the security forces. Is it really conceding too much to the govt. to draw a distinction between the paras and the post-paras?</p>
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		<title>By: lfm</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7809</link>
		<dc:creator>lfm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7809</guid>
		<description>I know it can be a misleading measure, but the graph on &quot;FARC&#039;s actions&quot; tells a sobering story. Before I get into the story, let&#039;s see the complications that might be argued. &quot;Actions&quot; may mean lots of things so that a lot of small actions in 2008 would count for much more than one big action in 1998. I&#039;m sure critics of the report will point this out. 

That said, if the numbers are taken at face value, what transpires is that after eight years of &quot;democratic security&quot; we are basically back to the 90s. You see, what happened was that 2002, the year Uribe came into office, was an off-the-charts year, an abrupt escalation in the activity of the FARC. So, what the chart says is that Uribe managed to roll that back, but that we end up in levels comparable to what was going on before that huge spike. (I will qualify this later.)

In fact, one little detail that the uribista rewriting of history wants to sweep under the rug is that the previous governments were already getting the army in gear to fight the FARC&#039;s offensive. I&#039;ve said it often: I&#039;m not fan of Pastrana and could fill endless blogs criticizing him. But when the story of the current war is written, it will be clear that the biggest military defeat the FARC faced on the ground was the Battle of Mitu, one of the great conflagrations in Colombia&#039;s history, and this happened early in the Pastrana Administration, with American air support and beefed up equipment bought under the Samper Administration. That battle pretty much broke the trend.  

Now to the qualifier. Overall, I don&#039;t get the perception that we&#039;re back to the late 90s although the data may suggest so. The attacks of the late 90s were horrific, probably the biggest victories the FARC (or, for that matter, any other insurgent group) had scored on the ground. But, from what I&#039;m picking in the news, the early 90s are a better parallel. And, if you are old enough, you will remember that back then nobody thought that Colombia was a haven of peace and stability. Back then the FARC were a serious concern. Not an existential threat, to be sure. But they&#039;ve never been one unless you drink the uribista Kool-Aid. 

Bottom line, eight years later, after the destruction of several institutions, after all the excesses, after all the legitimation of paramilitary power, after all the handling of social and territorial control to the warlords, the Uribe Administration is bringing the security situation back to what was then regarded as unacceptable. Heckuvajob!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it can be a misleading measure, but the graph on &#8220;FARC&#8217;s actions&#8221; tells a sobering story. Before I get into the story, let&#8217;s see the complications that might be argued. &#8220;Actions&#8221; may mean lots of things so that a lot of small actions in 2008 would count for much more than one big action in 1998. I&#8217;m sure critics of the report will point this out. </p>
<p>That said, if the numbers are taken at face value, what transpires is that after eight years of &#8220;democratic security&#8221; we are basically back to the 90s. You see, what happened was that 2002, the year Uribe came into office, was an off-the-charts year, an abrupt escalation in the activity of the FARC. So, what the chart says is that Uribe managed to roll that back, but that we end up in levels comparable to what was going on before that huge spike. (I will qualify this later.)</p>
<p>In fact, one little detail that the uribista rewriting of history wants to sweep under the rug is that the previous governments were already getting the army in gear to fight the FARC&#8217;s offensive. I&#8217;ve said it often: I&#8217;m not fan of Pastrana and could fill endless blogs criticizing him. But when the story of the current war is written, it will be clear that the biggest military defeat the FARC faced on the ground was the Battle of Mitu, one of the great conflagrations in Colombia&#8217;s history, and this happened early in the Pastrana Administration, with American air support and beefed up equipment bought under the Samper Administration. That battle pretty much broke the trend.  </p>
<p>Now to the qualifier. Overall, I don&#8217;t get the perception that we&#8217;re back to the late 90s although the data may suggest so. The attacks of the late 90s were horrific, probably the biggest victories the FARC (or, for that matter, any other insurgent group) had scored on the ground. But, from what I&#8217;m picking in the news, the early 90s are a better parallel. And, if you are old enough, you will remember that back then nobody thought that Colombia was a haven of peace and stability. Back then the FARC were a serious concern. Not an existential threat, to be sure. But they&#8217;ve never been one unless you drink the uribista Kool-Aid. </p>
<p>Bottom line, eight years later, after the destruction of several institutions, after all the excesses, after all the legitimation of paramilitary power, after all the handling of social and territorial control to the warlords, the Uribe Administration is bringing the security situation back to what was then regarded as unacceptable. Heckuvajob!</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7807</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7807</guid>
		<description>Side note: the press conference dragged on for a long time and disappointed when a copy was not disseminated. And the press there was rude, and not even close to on time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Side note: the press conference dragged on for a long time and disappointed when a copy was not disseminated. And the press there was rude, and not even close to on time.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7806</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7806</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read most of the report, and overall I&#039;ve found that it is very solid and findings are analyzed, to me, in an objective and clear manner - after all most of the data speaks for itself. There are a couple things that I have issues with - such as the counting of threats as an armed action for the neoparas but not that FARC, but that about covers it. At this point, the actions of the FARC would actually be higher. On the other hand, I like that they covered the ELN, which they did for very obvious reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read most of the report, and overall I&#8217;ve found that it is very solid and findings are analyzed, to me, in an objective and clear manner &#8211; after all most of the data speaks for itself. There are a couple things that I have issues with &#8211; such as the counting of threats as an armed action for the neoparas but not that FARC, but that about covers it. At this point, the actions of the FARC would actually be higher. On the other hand, I like that they covered the ELN, which they did for very obvious reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime Bustos</title>
		<link>http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248&#038;cpage=1#comment-7805</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime Bustos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1248#comment-7805</guid>
		<description>-- &#039;Get tough&#039; Democratic security :lol:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8211; &#8216;Get tough&#8217; Democratic security <img src='http://www.cipcol.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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